Leadership Lessons | Dani from SPARK

Learning how to lead YOUR way, while you build and scale 3 businesses, educate female founders AND raise $3mn in capital. 

INTERVIEW WITH DANIELLE LEWIS, BY VICTORIA BROWN | JANUARY 2023

It’s a dreary, overcast Sydney day when Dani bursts into our Zoom chat like a ball of sunshine and energy and we kick off a fast-paced, insightful and at times hilarious discussion about life, leadership, tiktok and lizzo.

Danielle is the Co-Founder & CEO of Scrunch, a global membership platform for The Creator Economy as well as the Founder of SPARK providing sales courses and coaching for founders.  Over the last decade Danielle has raised over $3 mn in capital, built a global remote team, built and exited a D2C company and now is dedicated to lifting other founders up and helping them on their journey. I’ve followed Dani on IG for a while, and her story and what she’s achieved is incredibly inspiring - so I KNEW she had some gold life lessons to share with us.

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BRIGHTEN PROJECT: I’d love to hear about some of the early days of Scrunch - and how you navigated building a hugely successful tech startup. I can only imagine the insane level of pressure you would have been under, from cap raises and hiring and shipping your product. How did you balance all of that “doing it” work with your leadership?

DANIELLE LEWIS: “Hm… I didn’t! Hahahaha. it's really interesting, when I started running a business (Scrunch) over a decade ago, I was absolutely not a leader. I'm a sales person by trade, which is a lone wolf kind of role, the harder you work, the more successful you can be. It wasn't until I actually started Scrunch and built the team and the business that I realised “Oh, I'm gonna have to actually learn some stuff about leadership”. I was so naive back then I just went into it thinking that everyone would work as hard as I worked.

I remember when I hired my first salesperson, I was so excited, thinking great - we’re going to scale now. I didn’t give any guidance, I just set the goals and let them do their thing - and they sold nothing. Wait - so you mean just letting you run free is a bad idea? Oops!

I had to sit down and document everything and actually train people in the “Scrunch” way of being and the Danielle way of being and actually put guard rails in there. It was a real eye opening moment for me because then they flourished, they were great.”

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️When you’re scaling your team or your business - make sure that you know your own shit. Have your processes and systems locked down and documented so you can onboard and train with ease.

BP: Yiiiikes - ok that’s a tough but valuable lesson to learn. Has there been anything else that’s really stuck with you like that?

DL: “Yes - well I think that if you haven't been a leader before, and you start a business and you’re hiring people it’s that super eye opening moment where you're like, wow, I really have to learn this new skill. It's just like when you have to learn sales, or you have to learn another thing inside your business that maybe isn't your core skill. When you're a business owner, you have to learn so many new skills - leadership is a huge one of them. Just like learning how to do your own social media, or learning how to build emails - you have to learn how to lead.”

BP: I LOVE this - because I completely agree. That’s one of the biggest opportunities that I see - in any industry, any function - leaders get promoted into roles and are just expected to be able to lead. No training, no guidelines. Just a ‘best of luck’ - and that’s why we have SO MANY ineffective leaders and see such a high turnover rate as people bounce from bad manager to bad manager.

DL: “Right? So many people start a business around a skill set they have. When you bring on other people, you really have to think about things in a completely different way. It’s not just about you and your skill set driving the success, it’s a whole new set of skills that you need. Leading, communicating, empowering others. I would find that I would hold everybody up because I wasn't empowering them to do their jobs. I was doing my own thing, you know, prioritising all the stuff I had to get done. Then they'd be waiting on me for little things. I realised I actually have to free up people so that they can be productive, and then separately do the things that I needed to do. The systems and processes go a long way, project management helps too, but the leadership - that is very, very much a learned skill.”

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️ You don’t start a business to be a leader, you start a business with a goal to capitalise on a great idea or your own skill set. The gap comes when you don’t realise that you also HAVE to be a leader. ALWAYS GROW YOUR LEADERSHIP SKILLS.

BP: Ok, let’s continue on the Scrunch journey - so you’ve hired a team, you’ve raised 3mn in capital, you’ve got SOPs in place, you’re learning how to lead. Were there any other skills that you feel have been a game changer for you in your career?

DL: “I subscribe to the philosophy that ‘nothing's ever done’. Every day there is something that we can do to improve and whether that is leadership, whether that's in product, whether that's in our marketing, whatever it is. There's always a way to make something just that tiny bit better. I actually have a process of optimization - as a business owner, your brain never sleeps, so I keep a brain dump list. Anytime I get an idea for something that might be brilliant, it has to go on that list. Then essentially what we do is we have either fortnightly or monthly optimization afternoons. We cherry pick things that we can make better off the list of ideas that I’ve had or that anyone else has identified.” 

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️ Always be optimising. Create a forum to step outside the business, and work “on” the business instead. How can you streamline? What can you make into a better experience?

BP: And that lesson can be applied practically in SO MANY ways - across your business, and to your own personal growth as well. Taking the approach of “what else can I get better at?:

DL: “Definitely! When I think about my leadership growth, one of the biggest facilitators to my growth was taking the time to reflect, and realise where my gaps were and focusing on levelling those areas up. That's actually an interesting point too - because I think a lot of business owners feel guilty about spending time on themselves, like you always think “I should be working, I should be doing that” BUT investing in yourself is so so important. If you get better, your business gets better.”

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️Invest in yourself. Invest into your growth as a leader - what are your strengths and how can you nurture them? What are your skill gaps and how can you work on growing those skills? Don’t feel guilty about investing in yourself - see it as investment into your business.

BP: YES YES YES - I always talk about this too - I always talk about the concept of ‘if you were a business’ - you would be pouring your profits back in for research, development, new products. As a leader, you’re one of your BEST assets that only gets more and more valuable. Just invest in yourself.

DL: “Yeah, oh, my God, it is so true. Even just understanding that resting is an investment in yourself too. Instead of that guilt - just taking the time to rest and restore. The best ideas I've had, and the times in which I solve big problems happen when I am reading, something weird happens when I read, and my brain gets a minute to breathe. All the things start to fall into place. If you don't give yourself that space, it is really difficult to be better and improve your business.

I’m reading “Die With Zero” at the moment, and the core premise is around spending your money on experiences and enjoying life. Understanding what stage of life you're at, and looking at how you’re building in life experiences for yourself. When you're retiring, you're old, and the thing that you have is memories. So if you’ve done nothing through your whole life except for saving for retirement and you've just squirreled away all of your money, you don't have memories to look back on. You also don't have the time or energy to make the memories at that point either - so it's this idea of designing your life around experiences and the plan is to die with zero in the bank account.

When I think about that perspective with the lens of a business owner too - we often put off our celebrations. We set goals for ourselves and think ‘I’ll celebrate and take that holiday or buy that thing or go for that dinner when we hit this milestone or that number’. Then time goes by, you don’t take the time to celebrate and the milestones pass you by and you have all these missed experiences. It’s just a good reminder to enjoy life, create experiences, celebrate wherever you’re at.”

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️Create experiences and memories along the journey - don’t just wait for the end destination. As leaders, celebrate your wins. Celebrate your first coaching session, celebrate when one of your team learns a new skill, celebrate your own growth!

BP: I really LOVE where this has led us, because I think it leans beautifully into my next question. This concept of building a business while creating the LIFE you want along the way. When I read your content, see your stories, etc. I am always struck by your tone of voice. It’s part sassy, part lizzo, but gentle, supportive, insightful. How did you get there? Where does this voice come from?

DL: “Um, I actually love this question. Because it all came from - kind of a mental breakdown moment. Before I started any of my businesses, I had done a decade in the corporate world. My parents worked in their jobs for decades and decades - so the corporate world was really all I knew. I took that perspective into my start ups. I took the language, the stuffy branding, even how I dressed and I did it for YEARS. We had a big office, a bajillion staff, raised millions in capital - all while I roleplayed as a corporate girl and a corporate business.

And I hated it. HATED. IT. 

When I had that realisation - I thought ‘wow, that’s dumb, you’re the boss - change it’. It was ironic because what actually kick started my entrepreneurial journey was reading the Four Hour Work Week by Tim Ferris - and being enamoured with the idea of creating the life that you want. And what had I done? The complete opposite. 

So I started making changes. I couldn’t obviously just rip the business apart, I had to make slow, step changes towards a business and a brand that was fun and that represented me (the “wine glass in her had all the time, listens to lizzo, loves pink” version of ME).” 

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️ Create the life, business and leadership that YOU WANT. That suits you, the situation and your vision. Don’t allow yourself to be shaped by others, or by expectations or by your experience.

BP: And the outcome was a SUPER fun Scrunch brand - and then Spark! Tell me about Spark, because one of the things that I love about both you and I is that we feel similarly about getting more women running big businesses, sitting in boardrooms and having economic power. What was that catalyst for you?

DL: “Yeah, so it was interesting, because the actual catalyst was COVID. In my corporate career, I was often the only woman in the room or the only woman around the table - so when I started my tech startup ten years ago - it was also very male dominated and I was comfortable in that environment but I knew that it wasn’t my preference. To help get through that, I created my own network of incredible female founders and nurtured those friendships and relationships for many years.

When COVID hit, I was talking to my network and looking around and realising that people, and female founders in particular were REALLY struggling. I thought ‘Holy shit, people are struggling, like this is really bad’ and that’s where the idea for Spark came from. I was thinking about how I could help other founders, and how could I take everything I know, everything that has helped make me successful and just give it away? I got a grant from the Queensland Government to build on that idea and Spark was born!” 

BP: So you’re passionate about helping female founders, and elevating them into performance and success. I guess you’re helping YOU ten years ago. Are there any MAJOR lessons that you wish you knew back then?

DL: “I would have told myself this is an ongoing process. You don't get it right on day one. You are going to say the wrong thing sometimes or make the wrong decision, and that's actually okay. That's how we learn. You can take all of the courses and upskill and read all of the white papers or whatever but sometimes you just have to show up and make the mistakes and be an imperfect leader to actually improve. So I probably wish I had known that it was okay to make mistakes, and I didn't have to be as hard on myself as I was. This is all a journey. Oh - and also I’d tell myself to never be afraid to ask other people for help and for their experiences. We try so hard and we think that we need to know it all and we feel ashamed if we don’t - but other women in business are the most generous people you'll ever meet. So if you ask them for help it’s like ‘Oh, absolutely, here's everything I know, here's my resources, here's my spreadsheet’. So, yeah, so I think it would be to know that it's a journey, you're gonna make mistakes, and that's okay  and to actually ask for help and build a network of supportive people.”  

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️ Building your business and learning how to lead is an ongoing journey. Always learn, always grow, and always ask for help.

BP: That's powerful. I love learning and always advocate for lifelong learning to the leaders that I work with. Even if you learn something and it’s not the right time for you to learn that, the information or the concept just doesn’t land - there’s still value. I’ve had instances where I have learned a concept but didn’t apply it or really understand until years later. It’s just about constantly exposing yourself to new ideas, new thoughts, new people, new experiences - and challenging yourself and your perspectives through that. 

DL: “Yes - but also being thoughtful about what you’re exposing yourself to. I think we see TikToks or memes and we think they're funny, but sometimes it goes from being a silly/funny idea and crosses this important line into being part of the zeitgeist and part of the social trends. Why can’t we just see things for what they are - just a funny tiktok or a silly meme that’s worthy of a laugh. I'm a big believer that language is really, really important, and when we start making jokes of, ‘I'm just gonna be quiet quitting this year’ then this meme moves from being a joke into being something REAL - you are putting that intention on yourself. Did we mean to do that? Do we really believe in that?”

BP:  And almost missing that step of your own critical thinking on what you're seeing. Instead of just thinking ‘oh yeah I’m quiet quitting’ - but more like ‘do I subscribe to that? Do I need that opinion in my life?’ Specifically on quiet quitting - when did it become cool to stop trying? To do the bare minimum?

DL: “Who decided to give people advice to stop putting effort into their jobs. I feel really, really sorry for anybody that actually picks up that mentality. Because what you're doing is you're taking yourself out of the race, and you're taking yourself out of the game. You're letting everyone else who's happy to put in a little bit of extra work, or just do their job to get ahead of you for the next promotion or the next career move or the next project. I think we need to find that middle ground of like - yes be assertive and don’t take shit vs. dream big, look after yourself. Where is that middle ground, and that reality check. Life is actually hard, work is actually hard. If you want to do anything worthy of doing it, there's a little bit of discomfort. Sometimes you have to push yourself harder than you might like to, to make an impact or to achieve something great. No one climbs Mount Everest by just putting in the bare minimum. I feel like there's lots of ambitious people who are getting tricked into this mentality that hard work is toxic.”

BP: Not to rant and sound like an elder millennial BUT I feel so similarly to you, you’ve actually sparked something that I hadn't ever thought of before, in the sense of they're taking away from themselves. Like, yes, of course, if your boss is trying to take the piss stand your ground, but you're right, tying your mouse to a fan and doing the bare minimum while you nap is counter intuitive to who we are as humans. People innately want to do work they’re proud of, and find and live their potential. When we actively take that away from OURSELVES - we kill our own motivation and growth. 

⚡️ LEADERSHIP LESSON⚡️ Stop thinking about work as something that you’re doing for someone else. Think about work as something that you do for YOURSELF. Use it to grow, use it to learn new skills, use it to try out your new skills. See it as building blocks that you’re using to create your future.

I feel like that’s another opportunity for leaders - it’s up to us to create a workplace and a vision that is so engaging that people LEAN IN. People want to work hard because they believe in what’s being done. Learn the skills to coach our teams so they understand that growth is driven by ourselves. If you want to achieve ambitious things, you do need to work.

DL: “Totally. That’s part of the reason why my mantra this year is ‘I want to know what I'm capable of’ because I don't want to prescribe to a mentality that is phoning it in. If I looked back on my life and I had just been napping at my desk, would I have ever built the things that I had built? Absolutely not.” 

Bright Sparks

• Book you’ve read recently and loved: #danisbookclub
• Rich AF - Amanda Francis. I loved the idea of “overflow” and that’s what I’m focusing on this year.
• Die with Zero - Bill Perkins. 
• Four Hour Work Week - Tim Ferris. Build the life that YOU want.
• 101 Love Notes For Female Founders - written by MEEEEE to inspire other founders.
• Quote that keeps you inspired: Yes - I love this one from Zig Ziglar -  “The chief cause of failure and unhappiness is trading what you want most, for what you want right now”. It reminds us we need to invest in the long term, be ok with some discomfort and hard work now, knowing you’re working towards what you ultimately want.
• Favourite person to follow on IG: @codiesanchez for really interesting perspectives on business.
• As a self described “I always have a wine glass in my hand” gal - what is your favourite drink to share with a friend? CHAMPAGNE! I have this concept called “pre-celebrating”. It's like manifesting, where you celebrate something before it happens. So champagne or bubbles is ALWAYS a good idea, because you can toast to your future successes any day of the week. 🍾

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